Baines's CIO Question of the Week on ESBs

[Gervas Douglas]

<<CIO QUESTION OF THE WEEK

*Ben Haines asks: *


As we move into SaaS, PaaS, best of breed solutions that are
innovating around core systems like ERP, there is a need for an
integration layer "the modern day Enterprise Service Bus". How are
you handling this? An old boss and mentor of mine once said if you
ever get to an Enterprise and they have an Enterprise Service Bus,
run the other way. Are you running the other way?

CIO Questions
<http://www.enterprisecioforum.com/en/ContentVault?uctype[]=3707> by Ben
Haines <http://www.enterprisecioforum.com/en/users/bhaines06>, Mon,
12/17/2012 - 14:49

From Wikipedia: An *enterprise service bus* (ESB) is a software
architecture <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_architecture> model
used for designing and implementing the interaction and communication
between mutually interacting software applications in service-oriented
architecture
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Service-oriented_architecture> (SOA). As a
software architecture model for distributed computing it is a specialty
variant of the more general client server
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Client_server> software architecture model
and promotes agility and flexibility with regards to communication and
interaction between applications. Its primary use is in enterprise
application integration
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enterprise_application_integration> (EAI)
of heterogeneous and complex landscapes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enterprise_service_bus>>

*You can find this at:
http://www.enterprisecioforum.com/en/question/we-move-saas-paas-best-breed-solutions-a
*

*Gervas*

[Steve Jones]

I think I might have mentioned this before, its about Domain Service Busses and Business Service Busses and understanding the ruddy services. ESBs are just a technology, sometimes good, sometimes bad.

Post by Gervas Douglas
<<CIO QUESTION OF THE WEEK
As we move into SaaS, PaaS, best of breed solutions that are innovating around core systems like ERP, there is a need for an integration layer "the modern day Enterprise Service Bus". How are you handling this? An old boss and mentor of mine once said if you ever get to an Enterprise and they have an Enterprise Service Bus, run the other way. Are you running the other way?
CIO Questions by Ben Haines, Mon, 12/17/2012 - 14:49
From Wikipedia: An enterprise service bus (ESB) is a software architecture model used for designing and implementing the interaction and communication between mutually interacting software applications in service-oriented architecture (SOA). As a software architecture model for distributed computing it is a specialty variant of the more general client server software architecture model and promotes agility and flexibility with regards to communication and interaction between applications. Its primary use is in enterprise application integration (EAI) of heterogeneous and complex landscapes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enterprise_service_bus>>
You can find this at: http://www.enterprisecioforum.com/en/question/we-move-saas-paas-best-breed-solutions-a
Gervas

[Michael Poulin]

Well, if you plan to deal with Clouds - SaaS or PaaS, using you internal ESB, I'd run the other way. BTW, there is an ESB pattern, not a system, and it may help. Certainly, there is a need for integration with Clouds and some vendors offer solutions for this. However, majority of these solutions are handicapped because thet do not consider that there is not only network boundaries between your company and the Cloud but also commercial boundaries, and what is good for business may be not that good for technology.

Anyway, ESB was designed for the same category of integration tasks as messaging systems. Integration with a Cloud and, especially across Clouds, is a different type of the animal.

- Michael

________________________________
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2012 11:36 AM
Subject: Re: [service-orientated-architecture] Baines's CIO Question of the Week on ESBs
 
I think I might have mentioned this before, its about Domain Service Busses and Business Service Busses and understanding the ruddy services.  ESBs are just a technology, sometimes good, sometimes bad.
 

As we move into SaaS, PaaS, best of breed solutions that are innovating around core systems like ERP, there is a need for an integration layer "the modern day Enterprise Service Bus". How are you handling this? An old boss and mentor of mine once said if you ever get to an Enterprise and they have an Enterprise Service Bus, run the other way. Are you running the other way?CIO Questions by Ben Haines, Mon, 12/17/2012 - 14:49
From Wikipedia: An enterprise service bus (ESB) is a software architecture model used for designing and implementing the interaction and communication between mutually interacting software applications in service-oriented architecture (SOA). As a software architecture model for distributed computing it is a specialty variant of the more general client server software architecture model and promotes agility and flexibility with regards to communication and interaction between applications. Its primary use is in enterprise application integration (EAI) of heterogeneous and complex landscapes. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enterprise_service_bus>>
You can find this at: http://www.enterprisecioforum.com/en/question/we-move-saas-paas-best-breed-solutions-a
Gervas

[Ashraf Galal]

What is the difference between application in the cloud and a
distributed application?
I think they are the same.
Integration is the same for SaaS as any distributed application.
Using ESB will provide benefits to both business and IT.
All ESB products implement the ESB patterns with different variations
but all implement the ESB patterns.
I disagree with the word "what is good for business may be not that good
for technology"
We have tried to align business and IT not to separate them.
What is your consideration about ESB in the cloud or with a cloud App?
What is the other way that you refereed to?
All the best

Ashraf Galal

Post by Michael Poulin
Well, if you plan to deal with Clouds - SaaS or PaaS, using you
internal ESB, I'd run the other way. BTW, there is an ESB pattern, not
a system, and it may help. Certainly, there is a need for integration
with Clouds and some vendors offer solutions for this. However,
majority of these solutions are handicapped because thet do not
consider that there is not only network boundaries between your
company and the Cloud but also commercial boundaries, and what is good
for business may be not that good for technology.
Anyway, ESB was designed for the same category of integration tasks as
messaging systems. Integration with a Cloud and, especially across
Clouds, is a different type of the animal.
- Michael
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Sent:* Wednesday, December 19, 2012 11:36 AM
*Subject:* Re: [service-orientated-architecture] Baines's CIO
Question of the Week on ESBs
I think I might have mentioned this before, its about Domain
Service Busses and Business Service Busses and understanding the
ruddy services. ESBs are just a technology, sometimes good,
sometimes bad.

Post by Gervas Douglas
<<CIO QUESTION OF THE WEEK
*Ben Haines asks: *
As we move into SaaS, PaaS, best of breed solutions that are
innovating around core systems like ERP, there is a need for
an integration layer "the modern day Enterprise Service Bus".
How are you handling this? An old boss and mentor of mine
once said if you ever get to an Enterprise and they have an
Enterprise Service Bus, run the other way. Are you running
the other way?
CIO Questions
<http://www.enterprisecioforum.com/en/ContentVault?uctype[]=3707>
by Ben Haines
<http://www.enterprisecioforum.com/en/users/bhaines06>, Mon,
12/17/2012 - 14:49
From Wikipedia: An *enterprise service bus* (ESB) is a software
architecture
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_architecture> model used
for designing and implementing the interaction and communication
between mutually interacting software applications in
service-oriented architecture
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Service-oriented_architecture> (SOA).
As a software architecture model for distributed computing it is
a specialty variant of the more general client server
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Client_server> software
architecture model and promotes agility and flexibility with
regards to communication and interaction between applications.
Its primary use is in enterprise application integration
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enterprise_application_integration> (EAI)
of heterogeneous and complex landscapes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enterprise_service_bus>>
http://www.enterprisecioforum.com/en/question/we-move-saas-paas-best-breed-solutions-a
*
*Gervas*

[Michael Poulin]

Ashraf,

"what is good for business may be not that good for technology" is not about separation between business and technology but about ownership and decision making - who actually decides which technical solutions to go with. A perfect technical solution may be blocked by business if it does not find it commercially (reputation or cost/ROI) effective.

For example, assume your company has ESB and your Cloud provider has ESB. Which one to use? You likely say "Use the ESB we have already" but the provider will insist on using its ESB simply because it will charge you for this (per request or per time of use). Your business can easily decline this provider in spite of its Cloud product is best and go with another provider, with worse product, but who agrees to use your ESB (free of charge for you).

- Michael

________________________________
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 2:37 AM
Subject: Re: [service-orientated-architecture] Baines's CIO Question of the Week on ESBs
 
What is the difference between application in the cloud and a distributed application?
I think they are the same.
Integration is the same for SaaS as any distributed application.
Using ESB will provide benefits to both business and IT.
All ESB products implement the ESB patterns with different

variations but all implement the ESB patterns.

I disagree with the word "what is good for business may be not that good for technology"
We have tried to align business and IT not to separate them.
What is your consideration about ESB in the cloud or with a

cloud App?

What is the other way that you refereed to?
All the best
Ashraf Galal
 

Post by Michael Poulin
Well, if you plan to deal with Clouds - SaaS or PaaS, using you internal ESB, I'd run the other way. BTW, there is an ESB pattern, not a system, and it may help. Certainly, there is a need for integration with Clouds and some vendors offer solutions for this. However, majority of these solutions are handicapped because thet do not consider that there is not only network boundaries between your company and the Cloud but also commercial boundaries, and what is good for business may be not that good for technology.
Anyway, ESB was designed for the same category of integration tasks as messaging systems. Integration with a Cloud and, especially across Clouds, is a different type of the animal.
- Michael

________________________________
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2012 11:36 AM
Subject: Re: [service-orientated-architecture] Baines's CIO Question of the Week on ESBs
 
I think I might have mentioned this before, its about Domain Service Busses and Business Service Busses and understanding the ruddy services.  ESBs are just a technology, sometimes good, sometimes bad.
On 19 Dec 2012, at 09:38, Gervas Douglas
 

As we move into SaaS, PaaS, best of breed solutions that are innovating around core systems like ERP, there is a need for an integration layer "the modern day Enterprise Service Bus". How are you handling this? An old boss and mentor of mine once said if you ever get to an Enterprise and they have an Enterprise Service Bus, run the other way. Are you running the other way?CIO Questions by Ben Haines, Mon, 12/17/2012 - 14:49
From Wikipedia: An enterprise service bus (ESB) is a software architecture model used for designing and implementing the interaction and communication between mutually interacting software applications in service-oriented architecture (SOA). As a software architecture model for distributed computing it is a specialty variant of the more general client server software architecture model and promotes agility and flexibility with regards to communication and interaction between applications. Its primary use is in enterprise application integration (EAI) of heterogeneous and complex landscapes. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enterprise_service_bus>>
You can find this at: http://www.enterprisecioforum.com/en/question/we-move-saas-paas-best-breed-solutions-a
Gervas